Daddyhood, Ropes, and the Joy of Control: A Conversation with JD (Lifestyle Dom)

Episode Description

Join Melissa of Body Joy After Office Hours as she sits down with JD, a lifestyle Dom, Daddy, and one half of the internationally acclaimed rope bondage duo Two Knotty Boys. A teacher of interactive rope bondage and restraint for over two decades, JD co-authored the bestselling books Two Knotty Boys Showing the Ropes and Two Knotty Boys Back on the Ropes.

In this deep-dive conversation, JD redefines the “daddy-dom, baby-girl dynamic” as a structured, honorific sub-type of BDSM focused on mentorship, direction, and a hot, fantastic exchange—not age play.

He shares candid insights on:

• BDSM Misconceptions: Why the lifestyle is more about joy, connection, and “love and light” than being dark or sinister.
• The Power of Belts: How common household items like belts can be versatile, inexpensive tools for expressing control and spicing up a scene.
• The Daddy Disposition: How being a Dom is a personality trait—being self-assured, consistent, safe, and communicative—that you bring to all aspects of life, not just the bedroom.
• Overcoming Awkwardness: Advice on how to authentically embody a BDSM role and make the shift from feeling “contrived” or “silly” to finding pleasure in the dynamic.
• Processing Trauma: The importance of patience in transforming a negative association with an object (like a belt) into a source of sensual, virtuous connection.
• Hoods and Sensory Release: The psychological comfort and “complete release” a submissive can find in sensory deprivation, wiping away life’s noise and distractions.
• The FRIES of Consent: JD breaks down the essential acronym for healthy BDSM negotiation: Freely given, Revocable, Informative, Enthusiastically given, and Specific.
• The Art of Negotiation: How to move beyond academic checklists and fetishize negotiation by incorporating specific requests and expectations into dirty talk and directorial voice.

Listen in to learn how to build deep trust, communicate clearly, and find the joy and safety within BDSM play.

Connect with JD

• Co-author: Two Knotty Boys Showing the Ropes and Two Knotty Boys Back on the Ropes
• Follow JD: @roperigger

Transcript

Melissa (00:00)
All right, JD, thank you for being here. Yeah. So you’ve been teaching rope specifically for over two decades. What was it that made it more of a language of connection and Zen rather than just a tool of restraint?

JD (00:02)
Hi. You’re welcome.

⁓ that’s a great question. I, ⁓ for me, Rope was always a way of sort of slowing down the sensual process. ⁓ was, you know, when I was young, I was very intimidated by, ⁓ sensual engagements. And so, to compensate for that, I became sort of directorial and said, Hey, I got this idea, you know, let’s slow things down and, ⁓ and I’ll tie you up and we’ll do a damsel in distress scene or some kind of, you know, theme to the play.

that would incorporate binding them in some way, restraining them in some way, so that I could sort of take my time, not feel pressured. So it was a conflict resolution strategy. Very unique.

Melissa (01:06)
love it. Is that something that just came to you as you were getting into rope or was it something you learned from another teacher?

JD (01:12)
Well, you know, to be honest with you, I’ve been tying, you know, professionally for over two decades, but I’ve been tying as, you know, as a dominant ⁓ disposition, ⁓ Engager in bondage since I was like six. So my first experiences tying people up was with like handkerchiefs, and belts. ⁓ and I, I just, you know, I’ve been doing this so long. I can’t remember when it started. And so a lot of it was just, you know,

maturing and developing increased skills. But I have never not liked having some kind of, know, directorial, if you will, control over a scene. And bondage was always an element of that. And when you call someone who reciprocates that, whose desires to be bound, desires to be directed, you have a fantastic exchange.

Melissa (01:57)
Hmm.

Okay.

You have a hot exchange. Exactly. Yeah. So there was two things you said. One about belts. I was just telling my friend Ross about all the things that I learned just about a belt in the class that you taught here in Austin. All you need is a belt and a space and you can transform the whole scene.

JD (02:22)
Yeah.

Absolutely. It’s a big part of, ⁓ my disposition is sort of a daddy-dom, ⁓ baby-girl dynamic, which is a type of, a sub-type of BDSM ⁓ that is ⁓ really a structured type where there’s sort of a ⁓ mentor, leader type in my case, and then ⁓ your baby girl. In our case, it’s kind of honorific. There’s no age play element to it, ⁓ but there is a directorial and an expression.

Melissa (02:51)
Mm-hmm.

JD (02:57)
of control in our sensual dynamic. A lot of times it will be equal in public. getting back to the item, one of the biggest elements of it is really creativity. creating a lot of spice and dynamic and diversity in the way we play, things are rarely the same. We always progress through different types of accomplishments, achievements, desires.

And so belts, you know, when I was younger was very utilitarian. It’s very democratic material. works for everybody. Extremely inexpensive. And everyone has one mostly, not all the time, but mostly you could have them get it. And so it was really a mother necessity kind of thing where I didn’t have the opportunity to buy leather restraints, ⁓ cuffs or what have you. ⁓ And so I would figure out

Melissa (03:34)
Yes.

Uh-huh.

JD (03:56)
unique and interesting ways of utilizing my belt. And it got to the point where I learned so many things that people are like, you really should teach this as one of your many workshops. And I just came up with a bunch more things that I taught in Michigan recently. But yeah, it’s it’s a utilitarian way of expressing control, spicing up a scene.

And it’s not intimidating. A lot of times having to get these accoutrements, these leather straight jackets, cuffs, all that sort of thing. It’s not only expensive, but it’s a very specific item. So you’re going to be able to string the ankles, the arms. You’re going to have your arms bound in a leather ⁓ jacket, a straight jacket, if you will. With belts, you can move around. You can do a bunch of different things with them. It’s really nice. Yeah.

Melissa (04:45)
Very versatile.

So what are some of the biggest misconceptions you’ve encountered around BDSM or the lifestyle dom, especially when it comes to relational dominance?

JD (05:01)
It’s, ⁓ as far as misconceptions are concerned, the most popular one is that we’re somehow, so we’re somehow like darkness.

Melissa (05:08)
Well yeah, when you said

straight jacket, I imagine some listeners were like, wait, what? And while other people were like really turned on, yeah.

JD (05:13)
Exactly.

Yeah, and you know, and that’s that’s how it is, you know. But, you know, I have friends who go, yeah, you know, maybe I’ll go to one of your friends who have never been to one of my workshops, but they’ve been friends on the side and they go, you know, one of these days I’ll go to one of your workshops. I really want to tap into my dark side. And I always have to remind him, I go, I’m love and light. I’m like, I am not. You’ve known me for many years. I am not. I’m not. I’m a very upbeat guy. The play is is joyful.

It’s virtuous, it brings people together. There’s laughter involved in some cases. There’s stern language. There’s very direct speech and requests. ⁓ But all of it is done in the context of consent. And it’s done in the concept of connection and love, dare I say. ⁓ You can play for all sorts of reasons. But sometimes, if you’re not careful, you may actually fall in love.

Melissa (05:44)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

huh.

JD (06:10)
And

so some of the misconceptions are that we are sinister, that we’re trying to resolve something. Some people are for all things. But ⁓ from my own experience and the people I play with, generally it’s more of a joyful exchange. It is direct, it is commanding. There is a dominance and submission element to it. But it is also consensual.

Melissa (06:20)
Mm-hmm.

JD (06:36)
And so, you know, we communicate our desires. I communicate very specifically. Usually I’ll send a text message illustrating exactly what I plan to do during our session. And then I say understood at the bottom. And if there’s an understood response, then we move through those elements. If there’s a qualification, understood, but, you know, my back is hurting me, my arms, I don’t know if I can, you know, fine. We qualify and that particular directive becomes modified due to our communication.

⁓ And then if there’s all sorts of elements, I could talk about that in a little bit about consent. But generally speaking, think as far as misconceptions are concerned, is that this dark and sinister really isn’t. ⁓

Melissa (07:10)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, we don’t we don’t see a lot of examples, especially in media and Yeah, we don’t see the full range that might be possible for people So do you think the archetype of daddy is being reclaimed these days or more misunderstanding within this modern kink culture? because you’ve been in it many years So you’ve seen this I imagine you’ve seen this arc ⁓ Happen. Yeah, do you want to share about that?

JD (07:40)
Yeah.

Absolutely. It depends. It depends on what avenue of information you’re engaging. But just from a popular culture in the last couple of years, you have that movie, Baby Girl, that came out about a year ago. And it was filled with lot of misconceptions. I thought it was good drama. And you have to kind spice things up. I understand.

Melissa (08:08)
Yeah.

JD (08:11)
You know, I think if I always jokingly say that I would, you know, if I ever wrote a polyamory book, it would just be about shopping, picking up the kids. Yes, yeah, Google Docs, scheduling. Nobody would want to buy my book, you know, it’s like, because everybody wants to talk about the sex and, ⁓ and I am here to do that. So don’t, I will, I will give you all the things. But as far as, as far as media and popular expressions of daddy, daddy, baby girl dynamic, that particular movie.

Melissa (08:19)
Google Docs and schedules.

JD (08:41)
I felt like ⁓ there was a lot of naivete in it. There was a lot of undeveloped maturity and emotions and authenticity. Because one of the most foundational elements of daddyhood is having self-confidence, is having self-assurity, communicating, listening, being open to response. That’s a huge part of it. And then not shutting down emotionally. Being consistent, being steady.

Melissa (08:50)
Mm-hmm.

JD (09:10)
because it’s less something that you bring and it’s more something that you provide and that people move to it. So it’s not dominant in a muscular way. I don’t handle to the degree that I’m taking control because of physicality. I’m trying to be a stationary, safe, consistent, mature, supportive ⁓ individual that people move towards. And when I say people,

Melissa (09:15)
Wow.

Yeah.

JD (09:37)
What I mean by that is that this disposition is not exclusive to the bedroom. A lot of times people ask me, so how do I become more dominant in the bedroom? And then I always joke back to them. said, you know what? When I hear that, I always ask the question, how do I be more communicative in the bedroom? How do I be more self-assured in the bedroom? How do I be more consistent in the bedroom? And I say you know, you can just take bedroom out of it.

and say, how can I in my life be more self-assured, be more direct, communicate clearly, listen, be open to exchange, not shut down when people give responses to the communications that I received. Then you do that at work. You can do that with your friends. You can do that with your family, your children, ⁓ and then your lover. And so it’s something that you bring to everything you do. And in the case of a central dynamic, it happens to involve

Melissa (10:29)
Mm-hmm.

JD (10:36)
sexual exchange and ⁓ BD baby girl exchange ⁓ or D ⁓ sorry daddy Dom DD ⁓ baby girl exchange but yeah you can apply this to everything you do. It should.

Melissa (10:49)
Yeah, that’s such a

it when you explain it that way it it makes me personally just feel really safe and Secure and want to go into that more surrendered Trusting space which so many people crave when they want that dynamic I imagine you know they want someone to trust them and fully surrender and and it and and often times when I work with a couple they’re unaware of the deeper

trust that needs to be built and how to do that ⁓ on a psychological level.

JD (11:23)
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. I always say that daddyhood dominance, if you will, ⁓ that disposition is not contingent upon a relationship. In fact, I encourage people many times to express and to create a ritual around ⁓ fostering those elements of one’s personality independent of a relationship. It’s not…

Melissa (11:24)
Yeah. Yeah.

Do you want to go deeper

into how someone might set that up? I guess I already have a story around people saying, well, I can only explore this with, say, my lover or my wife or whatever. And they reserve that kind of play. But yeah, how do you foster that in community in a way that’s healthy?

JD (12:11)
Yeah, well first it’s, you know, even in the bedroom, even though it’s a central exchange, it’s about disposition. And it’s about, like you said, comfort, something that you feel safe with. And so for example, you know, recently at work, someone was having a difficult time hearing something I had to express to them. And I listened intently, and I softened my voice, and I acknowledged that I understood that this was challenging.

and but that I’m here to support this task being performed. I’m not here to dictate. I’m not here to just ask you and then walk away. And so we’re a team and we’re going to get through this together. And that’s just work. And then we move on. We schedule follow ups and we foster the behavior that we need to have happen or the actions that need to happen on behalf of the project. ⁓ That’s at work and that’s the end of that conversation.

Melissa (12:55)
Hmm.

JD (13:10)
In the bedroom, I might be asking my baby girl to stand still, to listen to my voice, to keep their arms down, to breathe with me. I’m gonna ask them, inhale, exhale, good girl, and to ask very specific tasks that are founded on creativity and playfulness. I may bind them, I may hood them, I may strap them out.

pleasure them, tease them. I may call them something they’re not. I may call them, know, my raunchy little country girl. But you know, we play into that. And I become something for them and they become something for me. And we get to escape a lot of the tensions and the frustrations and the distractions that life bring us.

Melissa (13:54)
⁓

JD (14:08)
To foster that connection is also a sacred ⁓ container where the two can just leave the world for a moment. ⁓ again, you can provide that in a sensual way. You can provide that to a friend, a consistent, confident, capable, communicating friend. You can provide that at work. And so when I talk to individuals who are seeking this, I kind slow them down and drag them away from the bedroom. ⁓

They want to think, how do I do this in the bedroom? And I go, you’re not going to walk in a room and then poof, magically, you become something you’ve never been during your day. And so that’s the practice from 10,000 feet. There’s more detail to it, but that’s the practice from 10,000 feet.

Melissa (14:44)
Right, right.

I love that. So that leads into my next curiosity. ⁓ You know, people will often tell me, well, ⁓ I don’t want this to feel contrived. I feel silly in this outfit or I feel silly holding this flogger because they go buy all the stuff and then they instantly think it’s going to elicit this hot scene. And so what advice do you have from 10,000 feet as you move through the air for people that want to start setting this up?

JD (15:16)
Ha ha ha!

Yeah, when I say 10,000 feet, I mean widening your perspective. That’s what I mean. But yeah, well, a lot of it is the response disposition. ⁓ I’ll say, for example, I’ll pantomime and then I’ll be less specific. I’ll be specific first. ⁓ If it was in my situation, I enjoy dressing my baby girl. I like shiny clothes. And I like them so much, we’ve got to get a new dresser.

Melissa (15:23)
Yes, exactly.

Hmm.

JD (15:48)
really like dressing her. And she likes dressing for me. But hypothetically, if she felt silly in something I requested her to wear, I would laugh with her and I’d ask her, how are you doing? And she’d go, good. Are you done yet? Because I want to see you in this. I have plans for you. And so we work through those feelings. We work through those moments. They’re valid. And then I ask her to focus on my voice, and we move forward.

And if you start to associate, see the thing is a lot of times when people buy these outfits or they get these accoutrements, they think that there’s a power in those outfits. So there’s a power in those accoutrements. Like if you wear thigh boots and a corset and upper length leather gloves, somehow you’re going to immediately become a dominant. And you see this a lot in movies and in television shows where you’ll see the awkwardness of a character actor walking in dressed as a dominatrix or dominant. And you can tell.

Melissa (16:38)
for sure.

JD (16:48)
They are neither dominant or a ⁓ mistress. They’re just wearing a costume. And so in order to live into the outfit, because the outfit is sort of an outside symbol of an inward goal. It’s a symbolic, but I can put a lab coat on you and that doesn’t make you a doctor per se. And so what you need to do is the work and to start to associate that particular

Melissa (16:55)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

JD (17:16)
dress, dynamic or material as a source of pleasure and joy. And ⁓ having the presence of mind, the self-awareness to recognize it takes time. But it does. mean, even simple objects, like we talked about a belt. And a belt for most people is just something to hold your pants up with. ⁓ But over time, when you play with a belt, when you restrain someone, when you pull it out and use it to manipulate their body, control their body,

Melissa (17:21)
Hmm.

JD (17:46)
then a belt means something very different to them. And so it takes time to really do these things. And to not necessarily have to buy all the stuff at once, too. You can start slowly. ⁓

Melissa (17:51)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

So two things. One, the belt, the association with a belt. Like I have a history going back into my old childhood where I was like punished with a belt and it was not great. And so when I became an adult and I almost had to reorganize myself around the belt because I was also really compelled by it. I really, I really love the sound of it. I love the smell of the leather. I love the tinkling of the belt buckle.

And so that was my internal process around that. But it took also the care of someone, you know, to guide me through that. It wasn’t a solo process. And I wonder if you ever come across that when you’re working with someone or maybe a couple where someone’s got a little squick and they don’t quite know how to or they have a trauma response or a visceral response in their body and they’re trying to pull it into more of a sexy or more positive association. What you would do there.

JD (18:59)
It’s a common aspect of a lot of what we do. The origin stories for different people sometimes come from tragic use and circumstances we wish had not happened. But there’s something about that particular thing that has imprinted itself on us. if, as an adult, we’re able to take those things and sort of co-opt them and morph them into a more healthier exchange, maybe even bringing

Melissa (19:03)
Mm-hmm.

JD (19:28)
two people together and feeling closer. What a fantastic way to manage that particular memory or that particular aspect of self. The reason why I phrase it that way is because I personally ⁓ don’t feel that you actually like, you can ever get over that. You can never take that. That’s a part of you. For better or for worse, it’s the scars that we have are with us for life. But how we feel about them, our relationship to them.

Melissa (19:36)
Mm-hmm.

JD (19:56)
⁓ changes the size of the power they have over us. I had a girlfriend ⁓ many years back who had a scar on her face. ⁓ She was self-preoccupied by it. ⁓ I found it very attractive. I thought it was very sexy. I wanted her to wear less makeup because I wanted to see it more often. That provided, I think, her…

Melissa (20:00)
Mm-hmm.

JD (20:26)
a safety to move into, to see it in a different way. It’s not a source of something I should hide or to shy away from. It’s something I should flaunt because my partner really, really digs this. And so getting back to a BDSM or some kind of primitive desire for being bound, for example, perhaps it was done in a way or the element of those belts, as you said, was an abusive dynamic. But to

But that’s not going away. You’re still going to be thinking about something, this thing. And so having someone who has the patience, who’s not in a rush, that’s a big deal. We don’t have to do all the things to our partner. The first night we decide to engage with them in a very direct and sensual and sort of ⁓ dominant way. And so to take your time, to ease into it, and to start to make those associations, re-

Melissa (21:04)
Mm-hmm.

JD (21:20)
rewire our brains to see those things as sensual, those things as virtuous. When I say virtuous, mean, it brings you closer to somebody. And so it’s just a process, it takes patience and awareness.

Melissa (21:25)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Hmm, that’s so beautiful. But yeah, it takes awareness and people being, know, having the patience and even guidance to even go there. ⁓ I want to hop to your experience with working with Clio in San Francisco for the school. Would you mind going into that?

JD (21:55)
Sure. The pro-dom intensives, know, Clio established those kind of in the early 2000s for ⁓ service providers, ⁓ women and men initially, who provide a service ⁓ for exchange. It’s a transactional service to ⁓ give people essential ⁓ fantasy, a scene, a session. And ⁓ there’s a lot of elements that go into that.

Melissa (21:58)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

JD (22:25)
And so there’s the skills, there’s the attire, there’s the disposition, there’s the mindset, ⁓ there’s the finances, there’s the how do I negotiate banks, how do I negotiate payments, all of those things. And so rather than simply try to compartmentalize all those elements and make each of those particular functions ⁓ its own workshop, it was decided from her and a collaborative group of individuals.

to establish the Pro Dom Intensive, which was a three-day period. You started on Friday and you bonded with this group ⁓ of women and men, depending on the group, who were brought together to learn these things, to increase their skills, to establish their skills, to create a foundation for what could be a side career or in some cases very rare, a primary career. And my participation came in about, I think about three four years after it started. ⁓

Melissa (22:54)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

JD (23:24)
Maybe not, maybe even earlier. But I did it for 15 years. I think it went on for 19. But my participation was mindset, timing, bondage, obviously, and disposition. Basically, my earliest teaching was pro-dom houses, so dom houses.

Melissa (23:28)
Wow.

JD (23:54)
here in the Bay Area. So I would teach a lot of the young new service providers how to work with your clients, how to do your timing, how to work with equipment, how to tie, how to, you know, if you’ve got a 45 at one and a half, a two hour, a three, how to ease in, how to bring someone to, how to time it, say, okay, now this is where you taper, this is where you guide them out, showing transition zones.

How do you bring your client to the next stage? No client should be seeing one another. You know all of the protocols associated with the Dom House that was my Position is to kind of guide them through that process Cleaning prior to the next session because you got to prepare for your next for that your part your colleagues will call them session Nobody nobody wants to deal with your crap and so it was not only teaching the structure form and function of it But it was also teaching the orchestration and working with others

Melissa (24:37)
Yeah.

JD (24:48)
in a community of service providers, people who provide fantasies, talking about timing, when is this going to occur? A lot of people come in thinking, well, I’ll do this at night after work. And I go, no, you’re going to do this in the early morning before someone goes to work for lunch and then right after, because these people are coming to you before they go home. Very rarely do you get like a 9 o’clock. It doesn’t happen. Congratulations on that.

Melissa (24:58)
Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah.

No.

Maybe in the movie, maybe

in the movie it happens, yeah.

JD (25:18)
In the movies, it always happens like that. I’m late.

Oh, I’ll wait for you. No, I won’t. And so, I’ll be right there. So that was my element. As far as disposition, I used to tell them, it’s really best that you say as little as possible. Because from a dominant disposition, especially from, I’ll just do a heterosexual sort of cis dynamic. Well, not really cis, but heterosexual. Cis is a little bit different.

But from a heterosexual dynamic, from a male and female dynamic, that the male client is going to project onto you perfection. They’re just going to… You look the part, you have the skills, all you have to do is not interrupt them. Let them make you perfect. And so you don’t have to be something more than what… And that’s a very unique experience to service providing. So this isn’t…

This isn’t how I would coach couples, which I’ll get into because we also did those. We did intensives for couples, but that’s, that’s really where it started. and then over time, couples were like, you know, we would like to learn how to do a dominant submissive exchange and it’s structured. It’s, supervised, ⁓ use the couples get to take on the roles with, ⁓ assistance and people can step in, ⁓ while they’re doing scenes.

Melissa (26:20)
Okay.

JD (26:44)
They learn skills that they can exploit and employ. ⁓ They find their archetype, as we say, in Jungian way. What kind of Sometimes, from female doms, there’s a lot of different archetypes. You have your fem dom, which is your classic, dressed to the nines, thigh high, corset long. That’s just classic. Then you have your mommy doms. And they’re just nurturing. They just want to be there for the little boy.

Melissa (27:07)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

JD (27:14)
And then you’ve got your sadistic doms, your vicious doms. Who just want to use you and remind you that you’re a worm. But you’re their worm. And you’re going to be a sticky, dirty worm. And you’re going be listening. There’s just different ways. And so finding your archetype is a lot of hard finding yourself. Because when people say they’re a sub, I always say, what kind?

Melissa (27:29)
Love that.

JD (27:42)
You know, someone says they’re a dom, I say, you know, what kind? If I’m having a discussion where that could be requested or asked. ⁓ Yeah, there’s different types of subs, there’s different types of doms. You know, in the daddy-baby-girl dynamic, for example, ⁓ I reference the fact that myself and my partner have, you know, it’s an honorific. You know, being her daddy is an earned title. It’s because of who I am for her and myself, frankly, ⁓ and primarily for myself.

And so that disposition in her presence is very comforting and provides an opportunity for me to direct and for her to receive. But she doesn’t identify, for example, as a little, which is fine. Yeah, exactly. She doesn’t identify as that at all. She’s in her mid-30s and she’s a very mature adult. And so that ⁓ is how that dynamic goes. But everyone has their own little flavor. ⁓

Melissa (28:25)
Right, like age play, but it’s very something different.

Hmm

JD (28:42)
And so depending on what your flavor is and what kind of music you like and all that sort of thing, it’s like you move a little differently, but you understand we all love music. Just a little different

Melissa (28:50)
Uh huh, wonderful.

I love watching your Instagram because you publicly share some of the accoutrement that you have, like the hoods that completely cover the eyes and the ears. And again, like some people may look at that and be like, okay, what? Why does this bring comfort? And why does this bring peace? This seems so sinister. And so can you go deeper into some of that?

JD (29:12)
Yeah,

can give you a little bit of background. So it does, and that’s someone else’s association. But I’ll tell you where I’m coming from. So when I’m doing that, and this is pretty personal, so I’m actually gonna give you a little bit something I don’t usually give people. So when I was coming up in the scene and expressing,

Melissa (29:17)
Please.

Yes.

Okay.

JD (29:39)
my disposition, the self-awareness, self-assurity, communication, the daddy dynamic. ⁓ It can be difficult at times to look into the eyes of your partner, to feel the insecurities that are within you. Nothing’s coming out of them. You don’t want to project. But inside of us, sometimes we’ll have a moment where, you

What I used to jokingly say to some of the people I was working with, don’t look as, know, if you don’t, I don’t feel as cool as I look in these boots kind of thing. You know? And so in the case of someone else’s, they don’t interrupt him, but in the case of myself, I don’t want to interrupt me. And so historically, when I was younger, I would blindfold my partners just to kind of, okay, now I can take my time. Now I can fuddle around. Now I can grab my shit and not feel like I have to be a mister on it constantly.

Melissa (30:09)
Hahaha.

Hmm

JD (30:32)
You know, because sometimes you’re like, oh, I got to dig underneath the bed because I forgot to pull the thing out. And it just doesn’t feel cool. You know, and I put cool in quotes, sometimes it could be over overbearing. But so for me, the blindfold became the vehicle for me to explore and feel more confident without the eyes of my partner staring at me. then.

Melissa (30:51)
And there’s a lot

that happens too, like if someone can just hear or you’re engaging with their body in subtle ways too.

JD (30:59)
Yes. And so

for me, it became developed. then I met my current partner who ⁓ really, you’ve seen a lot of hoods lately because she’s into hoods. And I’ll give her perspective in just a moment to speak respectfully on her behalf. But so for me, it became fetishized. It became comforting. It became, ⁓ now I can, now we begin.

Melissa (31:12)
Mm-hmm.

JD (31:26)
And then over time, I use the hood as a way of wiping away the noise that we have in our heads. So we have a busy week. We’re thinking about next week. We’re thinking about tasks, worrying about finances, worrying about relational dynamic, all the things. So I’ll sometimes underneath the hood, which you don’t see, there’s earbuds in there, but doing white noise. And then the hood itself.

Melissa (31:33)
Hmm.

Hmm.

JD (31:50)
takes away the eyes, takes away… they can actually, in some cases, depending on the hood, don’t tell too many people, they can mumble a bit. So we’ll communicate with the hood on. Everyone thinks it’s all silent, but it’s actually some mumbling. In fact, there’s one hood I call the mumble hood. Because you can actually mumble in it. So there’s still communication. And there’s hand signals that we use too. But nothing happens fast enough to be problematic. And so for her, it provides… it’s just a complete release. I am letting go of… I can’t even form a thought.

Melissa (31:58)
Right.

Uh-huh.

Hmm.

JD (32:19)
All I can do is feel the pleasure. All I can do is feel the grip on my ass, is to feel the restraint stretching me out. It’s just, it’s a break from this constant reminder that we have this advanced cerebral cortex, you know? presses constant consciousness into everything we do, which is fantastic. But sometimes we need a break in a healthy way. And so that’s good. The hood is a given exchange. I know from a distance and frankly speaking,

Melissa (32:33)
Hmm.

Yeah.

JD (32:47)
I like it looking a little sinister myself. I find that very sexy. ⁓ So even though I’m taking away the sinister nature of it, I like that it looks sinister. Yes, you are correct. It looks sinister. Yes, more.

Melissa (33:00)
You’re cleaning it. that’s wonderful. ⁓ Wow. Okay. I can’t wait to see. I think you also had some sort of mouthpiece that would hold the mouth open. Yeah, you have some interesting toys and I’m just wondering what’s the psychology underneath some of these things. ⁓

JD (33:02)
I love it, I love it. Got two on the way actually. Yeah. ⁓ man.

Yes.

Yeah.

It’s

a lot of it’s based on circumstantial. I love putting my partners in circumstance. I love drool. I love, you know, requesting patience. I love seeing things that are only, you know, it’s temporarily exposed, like a mouth. ⁓ I like vulnerability. ⁓ I’m very appreciative of it too. I reward, you know, and I remind. It’s not just to take. It’s, you there’s an exchange.

Melissa (33:48)
Mm-hmm.

JD (33:48)
And

it leads to a lot of behavior patterns that, you know, I was talking to my partner and my baby girl recently. you know, I saying, you know, I, we just had a weekend away last weekend and we played a lot and we hiked and went to the beach and did all normal stuff too. And had coffee if you could. Like normal stuff, I know, wow. I know, exactly. But yeah, exactly. But that kind of…

Melissa (34:07)
Wow, he sat and coffee. Through the hood.

JD (34:14)
Connection and dynamic and that acquiescence really builds other qualities in a daddy. I always open doors, but ⁓ I just feel more protective. I feel more appreciative. That exchange builds a bond, a very private connection that no one else can compare to. I sometimes get, I won’t say too much, but I get ⁓ solicited, if you will, ⁓ by people. Because they see me as a source of

Melissa (34:26)
Hmm.

JD (34:44)
in some cases, fantasy. But I’m in a committed dynamic right now. when the strength of that dynamic just keeps my head to the ground, like I just don’t look up at people. mean, not to be part of it, it’s just I have things to do. But I’m just, I’m so not available ⁓ because of that connection and because of that play. So it builds a very strong sensual link.

Melissa (34:53)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Yeah, that’s beautiful. It sounds very, again, just very safe and secure and offering, you know, allowing your partner to surrender even deeper. What a beautiful setup. Yeah.

JD (35:13)
It’s very power- It’s very powerful.

We’re pretty lucky. It’s a good time right now.

Melissa (35:28)
Yeah, I love watching your reels. I’m like, my gosh, this is so beautiful. This is so beautiful.

So do you have play partners that you don’t do the daddy baby girl? Okay, and that’s very different than your setup with your partner where it’s a daddy baby girl. So I guess describe to me what might be going through your mind in just a play scene with someone.

JD (35:39)
Yes.

Yeah, no, it’s a great question because it illustrates that there’s different forms of play. so, know, poly dynamics can have multiple partners. And, you know, and I have two. I have a primary partner and then I have my baby girl. ⁓ Different dispositions are expressed with different people. ⁓ You don’t do always the same thing because there’s a term I use, there’s a difference between playing with someone.

Melissa (35:57)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

JD (36:21)
and playing on someone. So, you know, it’s fine. You you really it’s a communication. It’s a connection based on their disposition as well as your disposition. So that’s that’s on an intimate level. One of the other gifts that are provided is that some people just want to experience the rope, you know, or they want to experience what it’s like to be in a straightjacket. You know, I was at body recently and someone came up to me and said, hey, you’re the first person who suspended me about 10 years ago. And I go, really? She says, yeah, there was this cafeteria style event.

Melissa (36:23)
Mmm.

JD (36:51)
at this dungeon space and you could come and try different things. And I came to your station and I got suspended. And I thought that’s fantastic. You know, the thing is there was an assembly line of people getting suspended. I got suspended like six people. So, but I didn’t remember specifically suspending that person. But the point that I’m making is that that particular engagement, what was in my mind was that this person wants to experience rope. This person wants to feel safe and secure and stable in rope.

Melissa (37:05)
and dang

JD (37:21)
This person is my responsibility. I am representing the BDSM scene. I’m a steward of this community at this point. It’s very, very key that I be focused on safety, on experience, listening. How are you doing? How are you feeling? Do you want to stay up? Do you want me to move you around? So those are what I call academic rigs or academic play sessions or what I call room temperature.

Melissa (37:47)
Hmm.

JD (37:50)
⁓ It’s not, you know, you’re not tumesced you’re not hot, it’s not passionate kissing and the perspiration pressed against skin. It’s just an individual who wants to feel what it feels like in rope. The second level of that is I have a variety of friends, a lot of friends who just, the relationship is less about them and I, and it’s more about them and the rope. And so I’m simply just a vehicle to give them the bound experience. And then I just monitor. So what am I doing? I’m just monitoring.

Melissa (38:11)
Hmm.

JD (38:20)
So in some cases, just let them dangle, let them spin, check in, how are you doing? Good. And I go, where are you at? And they’ll go like 20 minutes. I go ‘Okay,’ And I just back off. And I give them that sacred relationship that they seek, because it’s unfortunately hard to You can do self-suspension, but even if you’re really good at it, there’s something about scratching your own back or rubbing your own hand. It just doesn’t feel the same.

Melissa (38:45)
No. Right.

JD (38:48)
Yeah, rub your own back, you know, it just

doesn’t feel the same. And so similarly, rope, when someone else ties it, it feels it feels like a back massage, you know, over someone else just rubbing their own skin. So, yeah, there’s a variety of it’s a very astute question. And so it goes everything from room temperature academics to providing an experience to to almost being almost kind of almost like a sacred participant in a ritual.

Melissa (39:01)
Hmm.

JD (39:18)
of rope and binding and just monitoring that in a sacred way. There’s no intimacy. There’s no thought of, I’m going to date this person or I have any other expectation other than to provide this and walk off. And I have to say some have been bummed about that because they want more of it. go, I’m here to provide this and then move on. Those are the different ways of looking at it.

Melissa (39:39)
Beautiful.

I love that. Yeah, because oftentimes, again, people can say like, I’m only going to play with this one person and there’s no freedom to just explore in these other containers that might be possible. You know, yeah.

JD (39:56)
Yeah, yeah,

and that takes growth and it takes maturity. ⁓ You know, there’s things that come up for people. My whole thing is I’m very, I love seeing, you know, ⁓ the joy in the people I love. You know, there’s some partners that I’m exclusive and there’s some partners that have other relationships and I’m like, how was your night? Fantastic. Like I’m happy. I want them to have fun. And I also see life as a gift.

Melissa (40:00)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Woohoo!

JD (40:23)
And I would never want someone for me or for them, no level of exchange, to be restricted from human experiences. From not being able to fully embrace everything they could within reason. I mean, we have some boundaries in dynamics, but there’s, for me, because I’m a very poly-minded person, ⁓ I’m more open to exploration because it’s a gift. It’s their life. If I don’t know how to do a certain thing really well, but someone else does,

Melissa (40:30)
Mm-hmm.

JD (40:52)
And there’s communication, there’s an understanding, there’s boundaries. So it’s a bigger discussion. But at the same time, the experience I think is valid and should be sought for. Like, you can’t do everything. Like, on a less sensual level, I don’t do D &D gameplay. So if my partner wanted to only do D &D with me, that would be very problematic, because I would probably keep postponing and not get around to it.

Melissa (40:59)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm. Right.

JD (41:21)
Or if I did do it, I wouldn’t do it very well, because I don’t want to do it. So going off and doing that is good. And sometimes it involves more sensual things.

Melissa (41:24)
Alright.

I love that. I love that. ⁓ You were mentioning when we first hopped on about consent, especially in this space. ⁓ Do you want to drop into some powerful ways to start developing consent ⁓ in partnership when exploring some of these dynamics? Yeah.

JD (41:51)
Absolutely, yeah.

So, consent ⁓ is, ⁓ you know, first I’ll say real quickly because of the time that I’ve been involved, ⁓ when I was growing up, you know, it was safe, sane, and consensual. So it was safe, and sane, and consensual. And so I really consider the safe and sane part of it too. Because people can consent to a lot of stuff, but I go, that’s crazy, you know.

You know, I consent to you leaning me over the edge of a building and giving me a juicy wet kiss. I go, that’s, it doesn’t matter that you consented to that. That’s dangerous. Yeah, you don’t want to fall off a building. I know you consented. I’m happy you consented, but that’s still. So aside, I’m going to set aside the safe and sane because nowadays everyone focuses on the consent.

Melissa (42:28)
Right, let’s not put each other in harm’s way. Yeah.

Hmm.

JD (42:44)
And so the general way of expressing consent is the acronym FRIES. And FRIES is the F-R-I-E-S of consent. And so the way it works is that consent first off is ⁓ freely given. Okay, there’s no coercion. There’s no expectation. It’s freely given. Number two, ⁓ it’s, yeah, freely given. It’s… ⁓

Melissa (43:04)
Hmm.

That’s okay.

JD (43:20)
Oh shoot. Can we pause it?

Melissa (43:22)
Do we need to pull up it?

Yeah, let’s pause it. Yeah, we’ll pause it. Yeah.

JD (43:25)
Let pause it. Sorry. I wanna get this. I said

it before we began and I don’t know why I’m-

I apologize.

In this, we can just do like a smash edit or something. There it goes. Got it. OK, so do you want to start now? OK. So in regards to consent, there’s an acronym that we in the community use to kind of remind ourselves of the different elements of consent. And it’s called FRIES. So you have the F-R-I-E-S of consent.

Melissa (43:45)
Yes.

JD (44:10)
The first one is that the F stands for freely given, so it’s not coercive. The individual doesn’t have an expectation. Like, let’s say, for example, you need a ride home at the end of the night, and you’re like, am I supposed to play with you, or I don’t get a ride home? You know, that’s coercive. That’s not freely given. The second one is that it’s reversible. And so this is really key element that I love, is that even if you give consent, at any time during the scene, you can call it and say, listen, I, you know,

Melissa (44:27)
Hmm.

JD (44:38)
thought this was going to be one way, it’s not feeling the same. I know we’re being consistent to what you said you were going to do, but I actually just remembered I have a photo shoot tomorrow. It’s a bathing suit shoot, and I can’t have any bruises on my I want to have bruises on my butt, but I’m going to have to revoke this consent because I forgot. So it could just be revocable. And it could just be, well, for what? It doesn’t even matter. You don’t even have to have a reason. It’s revocable. You could say I’m pulling my consent.

Melissa (44:56)
Mm-hmm.

JD (45:06)
And there’s a thing I’m going to talk about at the end about all of this that’s really important, especially for people who have dominant disposition. So the third element is I, which is it’s informative. So you want to provide very specific information as to what are you planning to do, where are you planning to do it, what’s the expectation, maybe how long is the scene. It’s informative. then consent is, they say, enthusiastically given. That’s the E.

Now, enthusiastically given, always say, not everybody has that yes, yes with enthusiasm. Some people are kind of even disposition or maybe just softer. But just listening in, watching the behavior, listening to the consent, yes, in a way that’s definitive. Because for example, I’ve had this doesn’t occur as often with people who you have ongoing consent discussions with, with a relationship, because you can read your partner. And you go, Todd.

Melissa (45:54)
Mm-hmm.

JD (46:04)
I you’re, I get you’re saying yes, but you look, you’re pretty tired. Yeah, you’re done for today. Let’s just relax. And so reading into that as a part of being present and being emotionally available. But it is hopefully enthusiastically given. Some people make it easy for you because they’re like, hell yeah. And then finally, it’s specific. And the specific part of the fries is really important because sometimes people let their enthusiasm get ahead of their better judgment.

Melissa (46:07)
But you’re done. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

JD (46:33)
I think it’s so enthusiastic. And this is what I was alluding to earlier. You don’t have to try to accomplish everything in one scene. And so sometimes someone will say, I want to tie you. And then if things are going really well, there’s a body response, there’s sensual kissing. ⁓ And then all of sudden they go, I really want to spank him. But that’s not what you negotiated. So it has to be specific. So shifting what you do. ⁓

Melissa (46:56)
Hmm.

JD (47:01)
when you say no penetration and you do, these things are violations. And so you have to slow down, let your enthusiasm subside. And that’s a part of that self-awareness, you know, breathing into the behavior pattern. And so the specific, you can’t just shift it. So again, it’s freely given, it’s revocable, it’s informative, it’s enthusiastically given, and it’s specific, fries, for consent.

Melissa (47:16)
Right.

Wow.

JD (47:29)
Now

overarching all of that is being there to listen to the person. Because we give all these people permission to speak, but rarely do we give ourselves permission to listen. And so we have to be open to no, which I think is the most magnificent word ever. There are soft nos, there are hard nos, and there are soft yeses and yeses. And so if someone says no, I don’t feel like that, or I had a rough day, or I’m just here to watch, thank you so much.

you maybe they’re at a public event, and just voyeuring today. You listen and you say thank you. You walk away. You don’t go back and ask again. You don’t hound them. You have self-awareness to go with that. Because that’s the kind of behavior, going full circle, that is a safe container. So when someone knows this person listens to me, this person respects my boundaries, over time, potentially, there’s no expectation. But over time, that person might be more

Melissa (48:08)
Hmm.

Hmm.

JD (48:27)
Someone they might feel safe with. So they may approach you. I said if you act with maturity and self-awareness, mark my word down the line, a couple of weeks later, a month later to, hey, I’m gonna ask you if you become the person approached. And so being there for other people, not shutting down emotionally, not wronging them, not wronging yourself. If I could tell a short analogy.

Melissa (48:29)
Yeah.

Please

JD (48:53)
When I talk to couples, especially males, who are seeking to be more dominant, I talk about all those elements of, know, it’s a personality trait. It’s something you foster outside the bedroom. It’ll be expressed in the bedroom, but it’s something you should do, you know, friends, neighbors, work, all that. So I tell them this part we already covered. But the other part, as I always tell them a little story, I said, you know, a lot of why I am the way I am is not because I became something. It’s because I never let go of something. When I was young,

Melissa (49:20)
Hmm.

JD (49:21)
and I wanted to play, I would leave my house and I would go to my nearest neighbor, our acquaintance, say, knock, knock, knock. Is, you know, is Melissa here? Yeah. Do you want to go out and play? Nah, not right now. I just don’t. Okay. Go to the next house. Hey, do you want to come out and play? Not right now. Maybe later. Kind of anything. Okay. Soft no. Maybe later. But I’m looking to play. Go to the third house. And the third house says, hell yeah. What do want to do?

And I go, now we start to negotiate. And I was thinking, well, man, I was thinking going to the creek. was thinking of checking for crayfish, maybe climb some trees, walk my dog. What do you feel? I don’t know about the dog walking, but I do like that crayfish adventure. And then we start going on those things. As I matured, it went from hikes and crayfish to hoods, straight jackets, and stuff. I just never stopped asking for people if they want to play.

Melissa (50:07)
Nice! ⁓

This needs to

be an adult kids book, like.

JD (50:18)
It really, yeah, my God, yeah. And so it’s less about learning, it’s more about not letting go. There’s a playfulness to it. And there’s an ease to it. And that no is not a no to who you are, it’s not a no to them. It’s just a, you know, there’s a whole neighborhood of people you can ask once, know, don’t berate or badger people. ⁓ But it is being, it’s just not shutting down emotionally when you hear a no. It’s a beautiful thing.

Melissa (50:25)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

JD (50:47)
And even a red, which is consistent with, you know, stop in a scene. It’s kind of a universal, hey, we got to stop. And by the way, there’s other codes, like there’s an equivalent to yellow, which is, I don’t want this to stop, but I want you to check in. So maybe I still want to be tied, but I want you to like loosen it a little. And then there’s green, which I think is fantastic. I always say, you know, there’s codes for, cause the person who is engaging wants to know that you’re good. So you check in and they go, you know, green or the equivalent of green.

Melissa (51:04)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

JD (51:17)
You want to continue? Yes, daddy, you know could be the green So the so the so the whole dynamic of communication has within it the potential for no’s and shutdowns and denials but it’s the key of a dominant disposition is to not take that personally and then also to see it as an opportunity as I’ve alluded to to gain trust and to be more present and to be more

Melissa (51:21)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

JD (51:43)
Because

everyone’s struggling, everyone’s trying to get through their day, everyone has thoughts and ideas and preoccupations, desires, dispositions. I always say that, you know, stick, you know, stick it out, you know, hold on tight. know, if you keep trying, you’ll find yourself. And I say that not to say, because this is usually when someone is looking for somebody. I really would rather you find yourself and be an immovable object who knows who they are.

Melissa (51:48)
Hmm hmm. Hmm hmm.

JD (52:12)
rather than trying to find someone who’s gonna make you feel different. It’s not fair to them and it’s not the solution for yourself. So if you stick it out, if you try real hard, you’ll find yourself. And then that self is the thing you foster in everything you do. And then people move towards you. Be a shiny thing, be a shiny thing.

Melissa (52:12)
⁓

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

No,

Mmm.

This is deep, deep personal work, which is so beautiful. Yeah. And I imagine like having mentorship and having community and taking classes and really understanding what’s underneath all of this instead of, you know, just going in kind of blindly and following, you know, one desire without a deeper reflection about it. Yeah.

JD (52:39)
It’s alot.

Yeah, I mean things look different from a distance. And I get it, like you said, it looks kind of sinister with the hoods and stuff. I get it, I get it, but the feeling from the inside out is just so different. And there’s a lot of stuff that I say too, that there’s sex for the head and there’s sex for the bed. And so there’s things that you do and there’s things that you fantasize about. And so just because you’re fantasizing about something doesn’t mean you need to do it.

Melissa (53:06)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Right.

JD (53:24)
And

that’s something to tease out as well. It’s like, is this something we can role play through words and imagination? We don’t have to physically do it, you know, but I’ll often with my baby girl whisper really dirty shit, know, shit I can’t even repeat on this podcast. There has to be some some level of privacy, really dirty shit. And and we both know it’s wrong, but it’s so good. But it puts

Melissa (53:29)
Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Come on, Shady, let’s hear it. No, I’m kidding.

Yeah, but it’s fun to say it.

JD (53:52)
Yeah, it puts her in the mindset of, this is where I’m at, this is who he is, this is who I am. ⁓ So there’s things that you can use through voice and through suggestion that you don’t even have to physically do.

Melissa (54:03)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that’s one thing I tell my clients too, is that you can ⁓ just because you have a fantasy doesn’t mean it needs to come to reality. And there’s a fun game that you can play. One of my favorites is like, could you imagine and you have this like banter, hot banter back and forth while you’re playing or maybe wrestling or playing with rope and you’re building the story together and knowing that like, yeah, we can just share these words together and still experience it in our bodies in some way.

You know, it’s so hot.

JD (54:37)
Yeah, I mean, you could be in

a, yeah, you could be in a, you know, a Silent Hill mental hospital, and, you know, and just requesting, you know, the patient stop now, turn to the wall, who let you out, put your hands behind your back, listen to my voice, I’m going to restrain you because I cannot trust you. And so come with me now, you know, turn away, strap them out.

If you fucking move, you you can start to do that and you’re not in a mental hospital. You’re in your spare bedroom. It is not Silent Hill. is, you know, is Rowan Oak, Kansas.

Melissa (55:10)
Right.

I love it. ⁓ One last thing before we wrap up, and I could talk to you for hours about this is, one of the things that comes up too in just conversation is ⁓ when people are negotiating and that FRIES acronym I’ve never heard of except for you. So I hope that gets out more. ⁓ When negotiating a scene, what’s that fine line of being someone that just wants to be surprised?

and getting consent and making sure you’re on the same page. So how do you personally navigate that? you know, dealing?

JD (55:54)
Um,

I mean, it’s always surprising what you feel. Um, you know, I’m very specific in my particular case, you know, um, you know, I like alluded to, I send, uh, send like text messages and say exactly what’s going on and what I’m going to do usually. I’ll talk, I talk to dirty quite a lot, but, as far as spontaneity is concerned, um, I would say.

Melissa (56:09)
Mm-hmm. I love that.

Like the negotiation, the fact that the negotiation happened also annoys people. how do you, cause they’re like, I don’t want to know everything. Yeah.

JD (56:25)
well, that’s, yeah, yeah, yeah. I see what you’re saying. Yeah,

that’s where I should, maybe I’ll put a little light on what I’m talking about. Yeah, I don’t sit down and make it an academic exercise. Nobody really wants that kind of project management level. Yeah, yeah, yeah, these are all, some people are into that that’s fine. But yeah, no, you can have negotiation be a part of your dirty talk. So instead of just saying, hey, hi. ⁓

Melissa (56:37)
Right, like a checklist of, yeah, yeah,

JD (56:50)
You know, unless I would like to, you know, maybe meet on Wednesday at such and such a time and we can do this up at the, but, but, but, but I’d, you know, I’d speak to you more intentionally and say, we’re going to, we’re going to, we’re going to set aside a time to play and I’ll meet you at your house. And then upon getting there, ⁓ you just make requests. I would like, I would like to see you peel off all of your clothes and stand quietly before me. I’d like you to lower your gaze. You know, can you do that for me? And there’s an immediate response. I’d like you to kick your clothes aside.

Melissa (57:13)
Hmm.

JD (57:20)
Take off your shoes. Good girl. You know, turn around. And I’m gonna walk up to your ear. And I don’t want you to fucking move. I want you to look forward and not goddamn move. And you whisper things. I’m going to walk you into your bedroom. But it is no longer your space. It’s my goddamn bedroom. It’s my goddamn space. And you’re going to move in accordance to what I say. If you have a qualification or you need me to listen to something, you squeeze my hand.

Do you understand? So these are all communication levels, but we’re not making it an academic exercise. I’m not sitting down and two people on two chairs staring at you. You can use voice and negotiation in a sensual way, except that think when people are teaching this, it’s in an academic setting. And so it feels so.

Melissa (57:58)
Hmm.

Hmm.

JD (58:18)
It’s like, this isn’t very sexy. Of course it’s not. You’re in room full of 80 people. talking generalities. I got an ink board behind me. This doesn’t happen in the bedroom all the time. But that’s what it’s like.

Melissa (58:20)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean you can really fetishize

the negotiation too.

JD (58:36)
Anything can be fetishized. You know, anything can be fetishized. There’s things that I post that are little messages to my baby girl that only she knows. They’re reminders. And that nobody else knows. But she knows.

Melissa (58:51)
Mm-hmm. That’s so beautiful. That’s inspiring.

JD, thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule and dropping into this conversation with me. Is there a message that you want to leave our listeners as we scamper into our day?

JD (59:05)
You’re welcome.

⁓

yeah, you know, just that there’s nothing, there’s nothing to live up to, you know, bring who you are, to what you want to do and what you want to see in this world. ⁓ and that be love for who you are, not for what someone wants you to be. that’s my, that’s my word of the day.

Melissa (59:27)
Thank you so much,

JD. It’s a pleasure having you.

JD (59:32)
It great talking with you.

Melissa (59:33)
All right, take care.